The Interview by Betsy

“So, Betsy, what makes you think that
your soul should be allowed to move forward and take residence in a higher
creature, a creature better than yourself?”
“The application for elevation of my
soul that you sent me says I must demonstrate that I have made a supreme effort
to be honest, trustworthy, loving to my partner and family and friends, and
sensitive to the feelings of others.   It
may have taken me a lifetime, but I am quite confident I have done this and that
I qualify for elevation.   And the effort
has continued throughout my life.  I try
to be loving to people I am close to. 
Sometimes I do get wrapped up in my own activities and I forget to be
considerate to my partner, but mostly I am loving and I do try. 
“I have been conscientious about following
the rules.  Actually, I did follow the
rules early in life.  I suppose they were
my parent’s rules; but when I became an adult I realized the rules were
different depending on who made them.  I
mean, I was married to a man because I heard that marriage is only between a
man and a woman.  But then, I learned
that that rule wasn’t the truth.  And I
tried to follow the guidance of my soul. 
Yes, I did have to hurt the man I married, but he got over it and is
better off for it now.  The important
thing is it was not my intention to hurt him. 
“I’ve always tried to be as honest as I
possibly can.  Yes, I know. I Iied to my
parents about eating the candy before dinner and well, yes, I know, about
having to be sent to the cloakroom that time in the third grade, and about not
doing my homework, but that was just once; and that was before I understood
that I have a soul and that I have an ego that can lead me astray when I am not
paying attention.  And punishment is so
hard on my ego.
“The application also says I must show
that I have made a positive contribution to society during my lifetime.  I bore and raised three children. I am rather
counting on them to make significant contributions to the world. They are smarter
than I, and they work hard.” 
“Well, Betsy, I do believe we can put
you on the short list, but the committee will have to make the final
consideration as to the direction your soul will take.  In the meantime, we recommend you do your
best to follow the straight and narrow. Actually, in your case forget the
straight, but keep that ego in check. 
After all, it’s only an ego.  It
has nothing really to do with your soul. 
You wouldn’t want to sabotage your soul for all time just for the sake
of your silly ego which is a temporary thing. 
Remember, you still have a bit of road to travel before the final
judgement is made.  We’ll get back to you
then.”
©
16 July 2012

About the Author

Betsy has been active in the GLBT community including PFLAG, the Denver women’s chorus, OLOC (Old Lesbians Organizing for Change). She has been retired from the Human Services field for about 15 years. Since her retirement, her major activities include tennis, camping, traveling, teaching skiing as a volunteer instructor with National Sports Center for the Disabled, and learning. Betsy came out as a lesbian after 25 years of marriage. She has a close relationship with her three children and enjoys spending time with her four grandchildren. Betsy says her greatest and most meaningful enjoyment comes from sharing her life with her partner of 25 years, Gillian Edwards.

From the Pulpit by Colin Dale

As a child and young adult I was spoken to from two pulpits. The one was a Roman Catholic pulpit. The other was an Episcopal pulpit. My father was a Roman Catholic. My mother an Episcopalian. My father Bill hadn’t realized when he asked my mother Anna to marry him that as far as his Roman Catholic church was concerned the only proper marriage was between one Roman Catholic and one Roman Catholic. In other words, a same faith marriage. Nevertheless, the pastor of my father’s Roman Catholic church, Saint Monica’s in Manhattan, consented to marry Bill and Anna–but not before humiliating my Anna in exacting from her a promise to raise her children as Roman Catholics, in effect invalidating her faith. Compounding his sin, the pastor at Saint Monica’s informed Bill and Anna the marriage would have to be held quietly, privately, not in the church sanctuary but in what I must assume was the less holy ground of rectory house next-door, in effect telling Anna she was a touch less worthy. Perhaps even a dangerous. Anna, my mother, a supremely gentle woman, never forgave Saint Monica’s pastor for the insults. Nor have I.

Now this may sound like a real downer, this story I’ve started to tell, the beginning of a relentlessly bitter memoir that might be titled How Faith Fucked Me Up. But there were deeply rewarding ups along with the downs in the years of my growing up in my relationship not only with my father’s Catholic pulpit but also with my mother’s Episcopal pulpit. It’s the rewarding ups I want to tell you about. To do so, though, I need to talk about these pulpits as metaphor but as people–about the men who commanded these two pulpits and who came to represent in my mind contrasting theologies not as hard-ass doctrine but as three-dimensional human beings. And as much as to this day I scorn the pastor of Saint Monica’s, I’m pleased to say in the years of my growing up I eventually found in the two pulpits–the Catholic and the Episcopal–men of every stripe: the compassionate and the cold, virtuosos and sad-sacks, comics and grouches, altruists and narcissists, scholars and fools. The variety alone bolstered my faith, if not in god, then certainly in humanity. It amused me too to see that these men of every stripe sorted themselves pretty much equally between the two pulpits, informing me neither faith was in full possession of the virtuosos and scholars. Nor, for that matter, of the narcissists and fools.

I’m the younger of two boys born to Bill and Anna, and there’s a 14-year spread between my brother and me. Good by her word, my mother permitted my brother and me to be raised as Catholics. When I was born, the family was no longer living in Manhattan–no longer in Saint Monica’s parish. Home when I was born was The Bronx–Pelham Bay–the rabidly Catholic Italian, Irish, and–in my case–dissonant Welsh–northeast corner of The Bronx. My father, my brother and I attended what was for its time a mega-church, populous–a hefty congregation needing six full masses on Sunday mornings–a church with respectable affluence for what was a working-class neighborhood. The church was Our Lady of the Assumption–which, as a kid, I thought was strange. Our Lady of the Assumption? I thought that was like saying Our Lady of Your Guess is as Good as Mine.

In any event, OLA (as it was called) was too big for me to ever get to know any of the priests as people. The Catholic priests I’d meet and learn to admire–to even regard as friends–came along later. While I was a kid going to OLA the priests were all two-dimensional, known to me only by the attributes neighbors would gossip about–such as OLA’s pastor, Monsignor Francis Randolf, the Tippler, sometimes called Randolf the Red-Nosed Pastor, whose rambling Latin on Sundays was sloppy and slurred; and Father Mario Giordano, for whom English must not have been even his third, fifth, or tenth language, the best bet for Saturday confession, we kids knew, because in Father Giordano’s confessional even a confession of genocide would draw as penance only three Hail Marys, one Our Father, and a promise to go forth and do genocide no more.

All the while, my mother was attending Saint Peter’s Episcopal Church, a founded in 1693, a handsome Gothic Revival structure with a piercing copper-plate spire and picture-postcard cemetery, still in use back when I was a kid, but with scores of wafer-thin, leaning Revolutionary War headstones.

Whereas my father and I would shuffle off Sundays to OLA–my brother, a capable right-fielder, had already exchange Sunday morning worship for city-league baseball–while my father and I would shuffle off half-heartedly to OLA, my mother would be worshipping with comparative sincerity at Saint Peter’s. My mother, unlike my father, really believed. I didn’t know back then if there was such a thing as real faith, but if there was, my mother had it in spades. She never proselytized; hers was a quiet faith. And the depth of this faith led my mother into all sort of available involvements at Saint Peter’s–the choir, the altar society, the food bank. I can still see her at the Smith Corona typing up mimeograph stencils for the Sunday bulletin.

These volunteer activities in turn led to her making a great friend of Saint Peter’s rector, Father Jeremy Brown. Father Brown was my mother’s idea of a priest–warm, kindly, charismatic–the sort if you’d ask Central Casting to send over a lovable priest, they send Jeremy Brown. Brown would have dinner with us. In Brown, I met my first fully human cleric. It was Father Brown who told me, to satisfy my curiosity, it would be safe for me to go along with my mother to an Episcopal service–which I did, nervously, fearful the next time I stepped into Our Lady of the Assumption I would explode in flame.

When I was in my late teens my father lost the only job I’d ever known him to have, a foreman in a lower Manhattan factory. To help until my father could find another permanent job, Rector Brown invited my father to work in Saint Peter’s ancient cemetery. Although it paid modestly–for which my father was grateful–the work was tough, not just physically but emotionally–graves were still dug by hand at St. Peter’s, and, as my father learned, digging adjacent graves often made for disturbing discoveries.

When it became obvious this work was taking a damaging toll on my father, Rector Brown reached across the aisle–or I could say nave–to a Jesuit friend at Fordham University–Fordham University, a great concentration of Catholism. Brown secured for my mother a part-time typist’s job in Fordham’s philosophy department. Again my mother drilled down, volunteering, doing far more than what was expected of her, and in doing so, endeared herself to the Jesuit faculty. It was only a matter of time now before we had Jesuits at our dinner table. Jesuit philosophers no less–occasions which, for my mother with her finishing school certificate and my father, a high school drop-out, made for challenging suppertime conversation.

The youngest of the Jesuit philosophers was Jack Balog. Father Jack wasn’t much older than me, or so it seemed. He and I became great pal-around friends. At my age I would have to reach way up to hold my own in conversation with Father Jack, but fortunately, because his own Jesuit training was still fresh, Father Jack had only to reach a little ways down so as not to embarrass me. Father Jack and I did typical guy things–concerts, movies, bowling, always ending our evenings at the Steak & Brew near campus. A couple of beers and Jack was honest even about his concerns about celibacy. A couple of beers and I was undeterred in my dishonesty about my sexuality. Retired today, Jack lives on a university campus in Eastern Pennsylvania. I’m out now to Jack. We’re still friends.

But the fellow I want mostly to tell you about is Father George Maloney. Father Maloney–or Father George as we all called him–was the chair of the Philosophy Department. Father George was easily two decades older than me, so an uncle figure. He was also a man whose IQ dazzled but without a hint of pretention. Father George’s specialty was Eastern Orthodoxy, a subject on which he authored quite literally two or three dozen books (many of which I have, warmly inscribed, on my bookshelf today). Unlike my pal Father Jack, though, Father George, Father Jack’s boss at Fordham, was an austere man, in appearance as well as in character. A lifetime of extraordinary self-discipline, strict vegetarianism, and long, long-distance cycling had give Father George, from a distance, rail-thin and with a wild salt & pepper beard, a somewhat disquieting look. It was only when you got up close, across our dinner table for instance, you could see how his eyes said you’ve no reason to be keep away. Nonetheless, unlike Father Jack, I would never have called Father George a pal-around friend. Our relationship was and remained mentor and pupil.

I’ll close with a snapshot of Father George, one of many years later. Father George remained at Fordham as chair of the Philosophy Department. I went off to college, got my B.A. in ’66, then went into the Army (having screwed up and taken R.O.T.C.–another story for another Monday), got discharged in ’70, worked for a newspaper in New Jersey for a few months, quit, discovered Colorado and snagged my M.A. at Western State in Gunnison, went back to New York for a year to help pout as my father slowly disappeared into dementia. I then returned to Colorado–this time to Denver and D.U. It was at D.U. that I met Jim, the young man who would be my partner for a decade. To collapse the tale, after a year Jim and I lost interest in D.U. We settled into an apartment in Capitol Hill and tried to keep it together working as waiters in a number of disappointing restaurants around Denver. Discouraged, I suggested we try our luck in my hometown, New York. Arriving, already nervous about the visibility of a love that dare not speak its name, Jim and I found it too, too uncomfortable living with my mother. Father George, though, over for dinner, spotted our distress and asked if we would like to come live at no cost, albeit temporarily until we could a place of our own, with the Jesuits on the Fordham campus. All of a sudden Jim and I were thinking this love that dare not speak its name–if we were to move into a Jesuit dorm–this love might just start hollering in the hallways. Anyway, Jim and I met with Father George. “I know what your concerned about,” Father George said. “Don’t be. The way I see it, God loves all love.”

And so Jim and I moved in with the Jesuits. We found ourselves in a four-story dorm full of Jesuits, mostly philosophers, many from Eastern Europe and the Orient with absolutely no English. Ours was an incredible experience, living in the Jesuit dorm–but that brings me to the threshold of another story, another story for another Monday.

Father George Maloney lived a good, long life, retiring not all that many years ago to a monastery in Southern California. I would phone every three, four months and we would chat. I never did get out there to see Father George, although I had the best of intentions. Then, last year, I phoned to learn that Father George, at 96, had died.

I grew up with two pulpits. Today I have none. I’m not sure if I’m any the worse off for that. I am sure, however, I’m grateful for the two pulpits–the Catholic and the Eposcopal–I had in my childhood and young adult years, not for pulpits themselves but for the lifelong friends they released into my company.

About the Author

Colin Dale couldn’t be happier to be involved again at the Center. Nearly three decades ago, Colin was both a volunteer and board member with the old Gay and Lesbian Community Center. Then and since he has been an actor and director in Colorado regional theatre. Old enough to report his many stage roles as “countless,” Colin lists among his favorite Sir Bonington in The Doctor’s Dilemma at Germinal Stage, George in Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? and Colonel Kincaid in The Oldest Living Graduate, both at RiverTree Theatre, Ralph Nickleby in The Life and Adventures of Nicholas Nickleby with Compass Theatre, and most recently, Grandfather in Ragtime at the Arvada Center. For the past 17 years, Colin worked as an actor and administrator with Boulder’s Colorado Shakespeare Festival. Largely retired from acting, Colin has shifted his creative energies to writing–plays, travel, and memoir.

Holding Hands in Church by Phillip Hoyle

          When I was a kid, Buddy and I held hands in church. We didn’t do it just once, but often. I’d cross my arms with my hands underneath, then lean against Buddy’s shoulder. He’d do the same, and we’d interlace our fingers. Although the act usually occurred during the sermon with us sitting in the back of the congregation, our leaning into each other was clearly visible to the preacher. He didn’t see it, I suppose. Perhaps his eyesight was poor or he simply didn’t want to deal with what may have been happening between two boys in his congregation. 

          The touch surely indicated that we were special friends. At least, we were friendly. Buddy was an outgoing jock; I a skinny weakling with personality. He was humorous, fun to be with although sometimes arrogant. Still, we had a great time, especially when we spent nights together, evenings full of sexual exploration and pleasure. 

  I learned from him more than just how to kiss and have sex. This young teen shared his ideas about girls, a recommendation of the underarm deodorant I still use, the need for exercise and sports I never followed. A wise teen myself, I realized I was somehow a replacement for his older brother who had left home. I had no brother. 

  We became more than friends. I don’t think either of us experienced infatuation, a crush, or puppy love, but we had sex. Enthusiastically. The experiences began with back rubs, progressed to kissing, and then to more explorations. Like most boys, we were not cautious. We didn’t think much about what we left on sheets or blankets, didn’t think about our moms or about the social ramifications of discovery. We just had fun together. 

  That was about it. Ten months into our affair, Buddy’s family moved away, and I went on with my life. I dated girls and really liked some of them, but I didn’t fall in love or hold hands with them in church. 

* * * * *
  Things changed in college with the young woman who would become my wife. We prayed together in the privacy of the prayer chapel, leaning into one another there. I taught her how to kiss when we made out in the car or in the cloak room of the administration building of the Bible college we attended. We liked each other and realized we were in love. Finally I had found someone to hold hands with again. 

  For many years we learned from one another, shared the rich experiences of a full life with children, friends, family, and congregations. We kept up a sexual exploration that increasingly brought satisfaction. Even with the richness of our relationship, its shared values and work, and its serious commitment to one another, I seemed to need more. 

* * * * *
  I met a man while attending graduate school. We couldn’t get enough of each other’s company, walked across campus sharing ideas and hopes, talked endlessly while sipping warmed-up coffee in his apartment. I knew I had fallen in love with this man. I wanted to hold him, to do the things I had done with Buddy, but I did not. Sitting alone on his living room couch, we sometimes did touch, rubbing each other’s feet and, you guessed it, holding hands. That was the extent of it. Neither of us verbalized our feelings although we both recognized that they were strong and loving and, we both hoped, lasting. 

* * * * *
  Years later I separated from my wife and soon after that from professional ministry. I moved to Denver to live as a gay man. During my first months living alone, I attended the Metropolitan Community Church. Each Sunday I would weep during some part of the service perhaps when I glanced across the faces of the many gay men seated there or when the singing roused a feeling of solidarity with gay believers or when the preacher’s words challenged the wider church to be loving, supportive, and open to gay people. Eventually I achieved a modicum of healing. I quit crying but then became annoyed with the language of the liturgy. I sought religious community elsewhere, looking for a church that would accept me and make sense to me. Perhaps I didn’t try hard enough for eventually I quit attending services altogether. My recovery continued outside the church: my community place, a coffee shop; my support group, friends I met there; my ministerial service, massage to clients who came to my practice. With these non-church groups I built a meaningful life and a purposeful career. 

  In Denver I have lived with three different men who provided me good relationships. Two of them were lapsed Catholics, the other a back-slidden Methodist. We kissed and had sex many times. We held hands but not in church. We never went to church. They felt no need, and I didn’t want to be irked. Sundays come and go with little thought of attending service, but I wonder if my religious healing will ever be complete until I again hold hands in church and this time openly. 

  “Hey,” I guess I could ask my back-slidden Methodist buddy, “what are you doing this Sunday?”

About the Author

Phillip Hoyle lives in Denver and spends his time writing, painting, giving massages, and socializing. His massage practice funds his other activities that keep him busy with groups of writers and artists, and folk with pains. Following thirty-two years in church work, he now focuses on creating beauty and ministering to the clients in his practice. He volunteers at The Center leading “Telling Your Story.”

Read more at Phillip’s blog  artandmorebyphilhoyle.blogspot.com

From the Pulpit by Merlyn

          I’ve been running from the pulpit ever since I was eleven years old. I grew up having to go to a united brotherhood church and never missed a Sunday from the time I was six years old till I was eleven, and I had a five year perfect attendant pin to prove it.

          I was taught that everything was a sin. Dancing, drinking smoking, any kind of sexual activity including masturbating would send me to hell.

          Every summer I was sent to church camp where I remember all of us kids crying as we went up to the pulpit to be saved. Then there were the tent revival meetings where we all had to be saved again and again.

          The thing I remember the most about going to church was sitting there on Sunday watching people. My aunt would be sitting there with her husband even though everyone knew she had a lover; my favorite uncle would be there too, but his gay boyfriend would wait outside in his car. Everyone would be singing the songs and acting so holy when they did communion.

          I hated having to waste every Sunday morning acting the way they did.

          When I was eleven I started making money on a paper route and working for neighbors. My parents made me pay board. I loved it; I did not have to do chores anymore.

          As long I paid my mother every Saturday I was free to do whatever I wanted to do.

          I stopped going to church.

          I started to love Sunday mornings, it was the only time I had to masturbate without someone catching me.

          I don’t think I have been in a church more than 20 times on a Sunday morning in the last 57 years.

          Spiritually I used to wish I could have the blind faith in one of the gods that other people worship but being honest organized religion has never worked for me.

          It took me most of my life to realize that any real spiritual peace that I have ever felt can only come from deep inside of me.

          There’s a feeling deep inside that gives me peace. I know I do my best to live my life and treat others the way I want to be treated. So I don’t let anyone make me feel guilty when I mess up.

          I have had a near death experience that taught me that everything will be ok. I do not think anyone really knows what happens to us after death actual takes place.

About the Author

I’m a retired gay man now living in Denver Colorado with my partner
Michael. I grew up in the Detroit area. Through the various kinds of work I
have done I have seen most of the United States. I have been involved in
technical and mechanical areas my whole life, all kinds of motors and computer
systems. I like travel, searching for the unusual and enjoying life each day.